In the seduction community or however you can call it there is big debate about the pick-up lines and techniques. Many claim that they can mess you up a lot while other worship their methods. As usual people circle around both extremes and as usual the truth is somewhere in between. Let’s dig in this one – trust me, it’s worth it. (this is going to be a long post)
The typical pick-up approach is systematized. With concrete steps and indicators when to proceed with the next. Like a script. This may help you if you’re clueless but at the same time removes everything natural from the interaction. Follow that system long enough and you’ll find yourself doing it every time you see cute girl (even she’s not your type). It will become almost as a habit. The problem here? It can mess up your natural feeling for interactions.
Some pick-up guys post that the girl they are “gaming” feels like they don’t actually like her (although they do create attraction). I don’t know about you but I miss the alignment here. Getting score? Playing for the statistics? Feeding your ego?
Check out this quick video from the guys from RSD – (link on YouTube)
Especially this line:
“A guy who’s doing pick-up is the only guy in the world who can approach a girl he’s not even attracted to and be depressed that she didn’t show attraction for him!”
Edit: I don’t like RSD much, yet this is very true quote.
I mean, focusing on the wrong outcome can have results like this! It can actually damage your inner game more than before trying. You can feel bad for something you didn’t even care before! (i.e. putting importance on relevant things).
One biggest problem we observe is guys that for example study Mystery method (one of the first pick-up models) is that they can dig so much in the “rules of the game” that they close themselves for every other possibility out there. They create something like blindness to the world, except their method. Completely ignoring all social dynamics that occur out of that model. Worst – they claim all else to be worthless, ineffective and “AFC” (similar as lame).
Newsflash – social dynamics existed long before (for example – as humans existed) the pick-up methods and still exists outside those models.
The problem is that those guys see it with its full contradiction with their model and beat themselves up because they don’t have a clue why for example the certain guy hooked with certain girl.
Many will claim the new social communications as Facebook, Skype, Text messages to be “AFC” and lame, thus they will never use them. This isn’t about effectiveness and improvement, this is about not being able to let go of your ego.
I personally know a lot, I mean A LOT of guys that hooked up via long chats in Skype, messages on Facebook, texts and so on. Discarding those is just limiting to you. One thing is not being able to use them well or not preferring them, another thing is claiming those as ineffective.
Also some claim the old school “friend hooking” to be lame as well. Dude, seriously? If friend can introduce you, that’s probably one of the best ways to meet someone new. The light they’ll see you will be a lot different than if you approach them on the street. Don’t get me wrong – approaching people is one of the best skills out there, but don’t ignore the normal social dynamics that were in place long before and most importantly – that WORK, just because it isn’t someone’s method. Don’t fight the system, utilize it!
Christian Hudson, one of the creators of The Social Man brings one very good post about the pick-up artist lingo. He gave me permission to post it here:
“As I write this, it’s a beautiful Sunday morning in May. We’ve just launched our B4UTXTHER program, and we’ve got a lot of new guys posting on this forum. Next month, we’ll be rolling out a program on online dating called Push Button Dating, and we expect another influx of new members of this community. So I wanted to take a moment to comment on some of the ideas and phrases being tossed around in here.
Things you’ll never hear coming from our mouths:- sarge- set- gambit- routine- pattern- number close- I’m sure there are others
Here’s the bigger issue: Language is the representation of thoughts. And in my opinion, there is a lot of language in the PUA (pickup artist) community that reinforces unhelpful thought patterns and beliefs. For example, let’s say you’re with your friend and see two girls who you want to approach:
Us: “Hey dude, those girls are really cute, let’s go talk to them, I bet they’re fun.”
PUA: “Bro, look at that 2-set. Let’s go game them. How do you want to open the sarge?”
What’s the difference? Well, implicit in the former is an us + them mentality. We don’t see them as the enemy, as foreign lands to be conquered, or as an alien species. Implicit in the latter is an us vs. them mentality. Not only does in-group lingo create a psychological separation in your own head, but this particular lingo originated in a community of men who saw themselves as outsiders. Without some of the early thought leaders in the ‘seduction community’, this whole industry probably wouldn’t exist, but I’ll go on record to say that many of the erstwhile leaders of the PUA community did as much to screw men up as they did to help them.
The challenge for us – or opportunity, as I like to see it – is to help a guy like you become an “insider” with women. But it’s not just with women, it’s with everyone. When you assume that people like you, and that you have something to offer that people want, life gets pretty good.
The problem is that many guys who encounter PUA lingo already feel like outsiders.
So adopting a few new phrases, and grafting a few new ideas, well… it’s not too much of a challenge.
The bigger challenge is in identifying the beliefs, attitudes and behaviors that caused you to feel and communicate like an outsider in the first place, and shift those. That’s something that takes more time and more work. It can challenge long-held notions of who you are, and be very uncomfortable. It can also challenge long-held notions of how the world works.
And the kicker is that it can be completely foreign, and difficult to understand for someone who’s on the “outside”. It’s taken me a lonnnnng time to understand the difference for myself – I definitely used to think of myself as an “outsider” – and even longer to figure out how to teach it to others.
That’s why we’re all here. This isn’t an insiders club for racking up notches on your bedpost or a place where an us vs. them mentality will be reinforced. But we also won’t soft-step around the fact that y’all want to do better with women.
Ultimately, we want you to do better with women BECAUSE you’re thinking in the right way, communicating in the right way, and being a great guy. That all starts with how you think and how you see the world and it manifests itself in your language.
So to everyone, thanks again for being a part of our community, and let’s all do what we can to create something unique, respectful, and self-empowering. The more it heads in that direction, the more powerful it will become and the more people it will touch and change – both those of us on here, and those with whom we interact in our day to day lives.”
He said it well enough. I can confirm it – using terminology to describe interactions with people will alienate you from them. It’s subconscious thing. I’ll repeat him here – Those guys don’t talk to girls, they “open sets”. They don’t joke and flirt – they “apply negs”. They don’t kiss the girl – they “kiss close”. It’s almost like girls are not humans any more, but strange species that require certain set of steps, like a code, to be utilized. (I have to admit after getting experience with the dating, you feel like you crack some code, but not in the extend of robotic puzzle).
You can check out Unbreakable – the system of The Social Man which follows the principles Christian just spoke about. Their approach is one of my favorite because it’s feeling all natural. (Actually his team is from group called New York Naturals).
You can also read this article from the Pua Lingo
Let me share a story how the pick-up methods messed me a little. I tried to apply a system that at that time I was feeling completely unnatural to me. Yes, I got out of my comfort zone by far, yet it only created stronger resistance to approaching in the end. Interesting huh? Some time had to pass (months) for me to relax from this state, so I can improve further.
Another bad habit I took was shooting stories whenever I started conversation. It was almost unintentional and usually completely out of the context. The habit I gained so I can tell the story no matter the vibe at that time. The problem? I got completely unresponsive to the dynamics of the conversation. Just shot my repertoire.
Actually this worked for some guys. They managed to get better and better, while I also do got better and better – it was this empty feeling, like I am doing something because I have to, not because I want to.
Some guys like me may find what is out of alignment and actually work to find a better way for themselves. Other however might not be so “lucky” so to speak and will dig in even more deep in their method, hoping that this empty feeling will go. Maybe it will, when they fall in love or something like that. Maybe it won’t which is kind of sad.
Few things to wrap this up. Don’t cast down if you can’t approach yet and you were hoping the pick-up to fix that. You can start slow, step by step and expand your comfort zone little by little (for example check out Carlos Xuma’s free approach anxiety annihilator ebook).
Also there is one big problem that many pick-up artists meet – they attract girls that they don’t actually like. Think about it.
I’m not bashing the pick-up here (ok, a little bit). I do sound harsh but it’s just to warn you about the obstacles I met. If it wasn’t the whole pick-up thing, we wouldn’t be here right now. However I believe there are better, more open minded methods that can fit individual people and help them improve faster with without frustration. That’s why I created this site!